On being called ‘wee man’ by Tommy Burns at her first Celtic match in 1980.
MM: We got a seat next to the tunnel. And the players were going out to warm up, and I was stuck– I just remember turning to my brother going, “Kevin, there’s Tommy Burns”. And he’s going, “yeah, I know”. And I’m going, “but there’s Tommy Burns. And there’s Billy McNeill. And there’s Frank McGarvey. And there’s Charlie Nicholas.” I was just– I couldn’t believe it was happening. And Tommy Burns ran back after his warm-up, and waved up, and said, “enjoy the game wee man”. And I don’t know if I was more thrilled that Tommy Burns had waved at me or called me “wee man”. It was just a brilliant, brilliant experience. What I didn’t know that day, because I didn’t really understand it at the time, but my brother said, if Celtic win today, they win the league. And they beat St. Mirren 3-1, and they won the league. And my first experience was Tommy Burns calling me “wee man”, and watching my team win the league. And all the fans ran onto the Park, and then they got the trophy, and I was just, I don’t think I slept that night either. I was just in dreamland. Every win for me is as important as that first time when I was that wee six or seven year old and, you know, being called “wee man” by Tommy Burns. Just like, heaven.
Interviewer: What do you think it was about being called wee man by Tommy Burns that meant so much to you?
MM: I suppose at that time, late ’70s, you know, I didn’t know I was gay. I didn’t know. But I liked being the tomboy. I liked the short hair, I liked the Celtic strips, I liked the burst knees. I like being one of the boys. And I was just treated as one of the boys. And that kind of affirmed my being ‘one of the boys’ status. And it was Tommy Burns, you know? And Tommy’s no longer with us, he died of skin cancer. But he was Mr Celtic. And I think of all the players to be, like, acknowledged, it was Tommy that was quite special.
On going to ‘the Jungle’ with her brother at Celtic Park as a child in the 80s.
And he still slags me rotten because he said, “you know that everybody goes to the game at quarter-to-three, for the game starting at three-o’clock”, he said “we were sitting at the seats at quarter-to-one”, because my mum insisted that we went before there was any big crowds. And there was one day– we would always go into the Main Stand because that was the sort of family bit, the sensible bit. And there was one day he said, “we’re not going into the main stand today”, we’re going into what was then called the Jungle. Which was the standing area, where you know, men just peed openly. And I was this little, maybe about nine or ten, getting taken into this Jungle. And it was half exhilarating, and half terrifying. But he swore me to secrecy, to my mum, that he didn’t take me into that part of the stadium. Because she was explicit about it. But what I realised had happened is, my mum had given him, because it was more expensive to go into the Main Stand, my mum had given him the money for us to go to the Main Stand together, but he bought four cans of beer out the Co-op on Westmuir Street. And spent the money that we were meant to be in the Main Stand. So we ended up having to be taken into the Jungle. So cutting your teeth at the Jungle as a small scrawny female was quite something. You very much learned to, you know, be aware of yourself, and be an adult. And that was also the day I had my first taste of beer.
On marching at Pride as part of the Proud Huddle alongside Celtic personnel.
So I suppose for me as an adult, kind of, Pride lost its appeal. I think it lost its, sort of, importance, it became very commercialised. So the opportunity to walk as the co-chair and the member of the Proud Huddle, and as an identified LGBTQI person, with Celtic personnel, and Celtic staff, it was just enormous. It was enormous given the history of what I’ve mentioned earlier on the interview about, you know, Catholicism, and Catholicism– you know, statements that were made about gay people and stuff like that, you know. And saying, you know, “criminalise sexuality” and such. So it just showed the evolution of the club, of us as a fan base. And the visibility on the day was enormous. The support from the streets was enormous. Interestingly enough, we only got one or two homophobic statements. And they came from a bar which is not far from here which is occupied by Rangers fans [laughs]. But they took the time to come out, just as we were marching by, and there’s a horrible, horrible statement that’s used, mainly by non-Celtic fans, that’s ‘Big Jock Knew’, which alludes to Celtic hiding the child sexual abuse scandal, not responding to it. It’s a vile statement, and they all came out and that’s what they were shouting at us. And that was pretty unpleasant. And I shared that experience with Ibrox Pride [Glasgow Rangers LGBTIQ+ Supporters Club] as well, because I think they needed to know about that. So– but the two Pride events, the feeling of exhilaration, the feeling of emotion, the feeling of visibility, was overwhelming. Really, really overwhelming. It was an amazing moment, amazing moments. But really poignant, really poignant.
On being a gay Celtic fan now, compared to in the past.
MM: Hard not to get emotional because if you look at the sort of, two– if somebody said “who is Maggie Murphy?” you know and, you know, the identifying components of who I am, you know, would be as a gay woman and as a Celtic fan in equal measure. So it is a bit like, for me, did that wee six or seven year old know anything about that? No she didn’t. But to have that recognition is massively important to see. My friends and family who sit in the stadium wearing the Proud Huddle enamel badges, you know, regardless of LGBT status. It’s so, wearing them freely, you know? Total allies, it’s really, really, really important. And it’s also important because, Celtic as a club have had their issues historically, you know? It’s well-documented, they were founded on Roman Catholicism, and you know, historically the Catholic Church has not been an inclusive organisation as an LGBTQ person. So to have the club recognise that, and have the actual production of the merchandise, I think is enormously important. What matters to me is if there’s that six or seven year old, or nine or ten year old that’s in the ground now and sees that, and recognises that you’re part of this community and you’re part of this club, you know, going forward, I think that’s massively important. It’s so iconic. It’s not without its challenges, you know, you get the– you get comments about “why are we spending money on this?” But [coughs] big emotional moment when we first saw that merchandise, you know? Really, really important, really critical in the history of [coughs] the evolution of the club, and the evolution of us as an LGBTQI supporters group.
Interviewer: Before Proud Huddle and before things like that merchandise, you just mentioned you had these two identities, being a gay woman and being a Celtic fan. Did you feel that those things were able to come together before the work you’ve done with the supporters group?
MM: I suppose, you know, watching the club when I was younger, then into my teenage years, I would have been honest and still said there was homophobic chanting at Celtic Park. There was a particular chant about a Rangers player that was sung openly. And I’ll admit to singing it, at the time. And I mentioned that on one of my podcasts, and it’s quite humiliating when you think of that. But then, it’s only by doing stuff like that in situations like that, when you reflect on it and you grow and you evolve. So at that time I would have said those two worlds were never colliding. And I would probably do my best to keep them completely separate. So certainly, you know, coming out at 18, 19, I moved up to Dundee to go to university. Again, being Catholic as well and coming out, that was a very, very tricky journey to navigate. So I probably, for that first sort of chapter in my 20s, kept those two entities separately, because they didn’t really align.